For nearly a decade, Marc Grens ran one of the earliest and largest crypto ATM companies in the country. Then he shut it down.
Episode 75: In this candid conversation with Erin West, Marc Grens exposes the backstory of an industry he helped build, then left. He shut his company down. Most of the industry kept going. If you work in banking, law enforcement, or elder fraud prevention, listen to this before your state votes on crypto ATM regulation.
Marc describes the economics-first culture where fraud prevention was consistently sacrificed for profit and why he believes crypto ATMs no longer serve any legitimate purpose.
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Marc co-founded one of the first crypto ATM companies in the United States, which ran 1,400 Bitcoin ATMs across 35 states at its peak. Then his compliance team kept lowering the dollar amount that triggered an alert, and kept finding the same thing: nearly every big customer was a scam victim.
A couple of years went by, and we sat in the room and said, ‘Anybody who does over X dollars in a small amount of time is probably a scam victim.’ — Marc Grens, Chaintrax Cyber
Marc shares what the industry knew about fraud and how operators waved it off at their own conferences as “financial Darwinism.” He explains how scammers in overseas compounds share a single phone number and PIN across victims to get around daily limits, why a $6,000 kiosk could return 850% in its first years, and why not one legitimate customer has ever come forward to testify against a state ban.
This is like nuclear power. If it’s harnessed and controlled, it’s amazing. It could generate more than we imagine. When something goes wrong, the destruction is mind-blowing. — Marc Grens, Chaintrax Cyber
3 Truths about the Crypto ATM Industry
The “underbanked” origin story for crypto ATMs was a cover for a fraud-driven business. The industry’s founding pitch — serving unbanked or “crypto curious” customers — never matched who was actually using the machines. Internal tuning data showed that as they lowered the dollar threshold for compliance calls, the overwhelming majority of large transactions turned out to be scam victims.
The industry repeatedly chose profit over people. Marc describes being mocked at industry conferences for raising fraud concerns, watching competitors embrace “financial Darwinism” as justification, and seeing retailers who cared only about revenue share regardless of any harm caused. When Grens’s company tried to change the industry from within by competing on high compliance standards, it consistently lost location deals to less scrupulous operators.
Cash-on-cash return was around 850% on these kiosks. Where else do you get those returns? Nowhere. — Marc Grens, Chaintrax Cyber
There is no version of the crypto ATM industry left to save. Marc argues that legitimate use cases for crypto ATMs disappeared years ago. He says that current legislative efforts to protect “existing users” from new limits still protect the same scam infrastructure, since repeat, high-volume users are frequently victims coached by scammers.
A Warning about Crypto ATMs
Marc’s insider account exposes how a “financial inclusion” story masked an industry built on fraud, and why he ultimately shut down his company. His warning: Without radical transparency and regulation, crypto ATMs will keep enabling scams — and the culture of waiting for disaster before acting extends well beyond this one industry.
Not one customer has ever raised their hand — when Indiana banned it, when Tennessee banned it, when Minnesota banned it, — and said, ‘You ruined my life.’ — Marc Grens, Chaintrax Cyber
The episode closes with a hard look at ransomware trends, the global reach of these operations, and Grens’s frustration with a culture — in business and government alike — that waits for catastrophe before acting.
Who Is Marc Grens?
Marc Grens is Co-Founder and President of Chaintrax Cyber, a premier full-service cybercrime resolution platform built upon over a decade of incident response experience. Under his leadership, Chaintrax Cyber has become a trusted partner for organizations navigating ransomware, extortion, and crypto-enabled crime — offering threat-actor intelligence, compliant ransom payment services, blockchain and cryptocrime investigations, and recovery support.
A serial entrepreneur and active angel investor, Marc brings more than 25 years of experience in growing start-up enterprises, financial services, and developing leading-edge technology. Earlier in his career, Marc held roles as a portfolio manager, research analyst, and investment advisor, and held key positions at Charles Schwab and HighTower Advisors. He serves on advisory boards for fintech and technology companies, holds an MBA from DePaul University and a BA from Illinois State University, and is a sought-after speaker on cryptocurrency, blockchain, cybersecurity, anti-money laundering, compliance, crypto crime, and ransomware.
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